is reading at the table considered bad manners?

[franksolich]

Much to my disconcertment, last night (Wednesday night), a local dowager had complained about my "bad manners" of reading while dining with nine other people; not to me--she had complained to friends of mine.

I was reading the Encyclopedia Americana, specifically the entries about the silkworm industry in France during the 1840s, while everybody else was yik-yakking away.

Of course, there's a practical matter here; too many people, too much light and movement, too much color, which to me is "noise," and so I can't keep track of what's being said, or what I think's being said.

What is one to do?  Chew on his food and twiddle his thumbs?

Actually, it's a cultural thing.

It was always de rigeuer that the family dine together, breakfast, lunch, supper, when I was a little lad alongside the Platte River of Nebraska, and an adolescent thriving in the Sandhills of Nebraska.

Of course, because the older siblings were so much older than my younger brother and myself, by the time I was a teenager, a "full house" never happened, the older of the older ones having gone off to college and careers.

But generally, this is the way it was around the dining-room table, when franksolich was, say, circa 11 years old:

First, there is my father, at the head of the table at breakfast, reading the Omaha World-Herald.  To his left is an older sister of mine, reading Le Soir, a then-popular French newsmagazine.  After her is another sister, reading Modern Bride.  And then there is my younger brother, reading a comics-book.  At the end of the table from my father is an older brother of mine, reading the sports section of the Chicago Tribune.  Then there is another brother, reading the automobile want-ads in the North Platte Telegraph.  After him, my mother, reading the Lincoln Journal-Star.  And then the young franksolich between his parents, reading Harper's Weekly from some time in 1877, that someone had found and given to him.

Once in a while, the silence is interrupted by "Pass the eggs, please."

Utter domestic tranquility.

And then at lunch, there is my father, reading the Saturday Review, and after him, an older sister of mine, reading Le Parisenne, and after her, another sister, reading Madamoiselle.  And then my younger brother, reading Mad magazine.  Around the corner of the table, there is an older brother, reading Sports Illustrated, and then around the corner again, another older brother, reading Automotive News.  And then my mother, reading the Grand Island Daily Independent.  And between his two ancestors, there is franksolich, reading a 1926 copy of Literary Digest that someone had found and given to him.

Once in a while, the silence is interrupted by "Pass the butter, please."

Utter domestic tranquility.

At suppertime, the personnel is thinned a bit.  There is my father again at the head of the table, reading the Custer County Chief.  Around the corner from him, my younger brother, reading Boy's Life.  An older sister, reading Young Miss.  Around the corner from her, an older brother, reading Baseball News.  Around the corner, my mother, reading the Reader's Digest.  And then franksolich, reading an issue of Psychology Today dating back to 1945, which someone had found and given to him.

Once in a while, the silence is interruped by "Pass the milk, please."

Utter domestic tranquility.

[Flame]

Normally I'd say reading at the table while dining with others is rude, however, in your case, I'd say it was acceptable.  And if everyone is reading, then, no problem!   

[Lord Undies]

My thoughts:  Yes, it is bad manners when dining with others regardless of the circumstances.  It would make you look self-involved and uninterested in your company.  I think the word I am looking for is "snooty".

Manners are not about how we think.  Manners are about how we make others think.  We all sacrifice for the social graces.

[Sam Adams]

Frank, maybe you caught my comment in the shout box.

My own opinion is that the dowager had a good point, but she should have spoken directly and only to you. She gossiped. The greater sin is hers.

[franksolich]

My thoughts:  Yes, it is bad manners when dining with others regardless of the circumstances.  It would make you look self-involved and uninterested in your company.  I think the word I am looking for is "snooty".

Manners are not about how we think.  Manners are about how we make others think.  We all sacrifice for the social graces.

Well now, what does one do if someone tries to get him "involved" in a conversation, about which he knows not the topic or what's been said so far about it?

I do greet every single person at the table, acknowledging their presence and picking up a few scraps of information about how each one is doing, blahblahblah.

But to try and follow things renders me comatose.

Usually, I avoid it by not accepting such invitations, probably 75% of them. 

I'm more of a one-on-one person, not a social animal.

Incidentally, an excerpt of this is posted here

http://www.freerepublic.c...chat/2293941/posts?page=1

in case anyone wishes to see other comments.

[Lord Undies]

Well now, what does one do if someone tries to get him "involved" in a conversation, about which he knows not the topic or what's been said so far about it?

I do greet every single person at the table, acknowledging their presence and picking up a few scraps of information about how each one is doing, blahblahblah.

But to try and follow things renders me comatose.

Usually, I avoid it by not accepting such invitations, probably 75% of them. 

I'm more of a one-on-one person, not a social animal.

Incidentally, an excerpt of this is posted here

http://www.freerepublic.c...chat/2293941/posts?page=1

in case anyone wishes to see other comments.

I know you are a gentleman to the core.  I never doubt that for a second.  I also know you socialize under different circumstances, and I appreciate that effort.

Nonetheless, you asked and I replied.  It's just an opinion.

[DumbAss Tanker]

You're a special case, but yes, it is quite rude, and appears to express indifference or disdain toward your dining partners, unless it is a situation where they are your constant companions anyway (Co-workers, roommates, etc.) and just eating at a squat-and-gobble.  For a more social meal with people you don't know so thoroughly, it's a slap in the face.

[franksolich]

You're a special case, but yes, it is quite rude, and appears to express indifference or disdain toward your dining partners, unless it is a situation where they are your constant companions anyway (Co-workers, roommates, etc.) and just eating at a squat-and-gobble.  For a more social meal with people you don't know so thoroughly, it's a slap in the face.

See, I have "standard operating procedures" for situations requiring communication, and I'm here describing those situations in particular where one is dining; for other situations not involving dining, I have other procedures.

If dining with only one person, I never read.  I give my full attention to that person; this is after all the situation I prefer, one-on-one, and if available in a booth (rather than at a table) in an obscure corner of the restaurant, where there is less "noise" from clutter, motion, light, and color.

In those instances, I never read, not even the headline of a newspaper.

However, there is a newly-evolving problem, and I might have to change the standard operating procedures here, with the advent and prolific use of cellular telephones.  I am constantly amazed at how routinely--as if it's no big deal--and automatically people, upon hearing their cellular telephone ring, stop in mid-conversation to chitchat on it.

Here I am, burning my brain, using a tremendous effort of both intellectual and physical gymnastics, to give this other person my full attention; to ensure that I am accurately "getting" what's being said. 

BlueStateSaint here keeps egging me on about purchasing a revolver, which of course is going to happen sooner or later, just to piss off the anti-Second Amendment bigots, but I'm still doing target practice.  The "goal" is to learn how to shoot a hole into a cellular telephone without hurting anybody.

If dining with two people, I never read.  Sometimes it seems to me it would be better if I did, but I don't.  Everybody tells their problems to the bartender; for reasons mysterious to me, bartenders in turn share their troubles with me.

In the case of dining with two people, the two people are usually a married couple or two good friends of each other, who much to my dismay have a habit of "letting their hair down" when around me, as if I'm supposed to adjudicate differences between them.

Or perhaps they simply just want to out-drama-queen each other in front of an audience.

I have no idea why I attract such situations, but I do.

Damn, I hate it when that happens.

If dining with three people, it becomes a great big grey area, but usually no.  it all depends upon how well the three people get along with each other, in relation to myself.  Probably about 10% of the time--I'm only guessing here--I do it, but most nearly all the time I don't.

If invited to dine with four or more people, I respectfully "decline" about 75% of the time, accepting just enough invitations to keep me socially viable.  I usually read at the table, but it depends upon the nature of the other company.

The one being complained about had nine other people there, three of whom are very good friends, and the other six more than acquaintances, but less than friends.  These were mostly affluent people whose main interest of the night was Pa Kettle in the White House's attempts to run the cattle industry into the ground. 

My sentiments matched theirs, and they knew my sentiments matched theirs, and I had nothing new or interesting to contribute, so read instead.

This is a life that, really, tries to avoid such situations.

[SilverOrchid]

My mom always said so. The woman also used to hit my elbows with the blunt end of silverware to keep my elbows off the table. She was pretty strict about manners.

[vesta111]

My mom always said so. The woman also used to hit my elbows with the blunt end of silverware to keep my elbows off the table. She was pretty strict about manners.

This is a joke, right ??

Why on earth would anyone spend time with others and drift off into a land that no one else can follow.?  If one needs to venture out alone into the world of words, unless in a waiting room with strangers on all sides, to pull out any reading material is a sign to others that you are busy and not to be disturbed.

Great mystery of life here why is it that when someone say at lunch alone just eats, people pass by like they are invisible.  When that someone eating alone pulls out a book, people come out of the woodwork to pass the time of day ?  This is on a par of rudeness that is worse then having people  talk to you about the weather while you are watching a movie.

I understand where you are coming from on the family meals, at breakfast perhaps even lunch, however dinner may be the only time to relax and communicate with family.

Reading for pleasure is an incredibly selfish act, one gains knowledge and leaves this world of reality same as one does when they dream.

How would anyone feel if in middle of a sex act their partner opened a book, called someone on a cell phone or played checkers on those hand held games??

Dining with others even family has rules of civil deportment. no hats or t-shirts or bare chests for the men.  No blowing their nose of picking it. Chew with your mouth shut, no slurping of food or drinks. Don't feed the dog or cat under the table, no lobing peas across the room, place the napkin in your lap, no elbows on the table, no loud talking or crude speech. Never pick ones teeth or use dentil floss,  don't wipe your mouth on the table cloth or shirt sleeve.  Don't eat mashed potatoes with your fingers.

The ONLY thing that one should read with a companion/companions is the Menu.


 

[dutch508]

How would anyone feel if in middle of a sex act their partner opened a book, called someone on a cell phone or played checkers on those hand held games??

hell. most of my partners aren't even awake for the full 8 seconds and miss completly the dismount.

[vesta111]

hell. most of my partners aren't even awake for the full 8 seconds and miss completly the dismount.

That is why one should stay out of the barn late at night, baaasaad boy.

[dutch508]

That is why one should stay out of the barn late at night, baaasaad boy.

that's just ambeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaance.

[Thor]

Frank, I feel the same way about cell phones as you do. They annoy me. The people that use them in restaurants or other public places annoy me, too. In my opinion, cell phones ARE a handy device, but too many people have become slaves to them. If I'm in a conversation, I let my cell phone ring. If it's important, people will leave a voice mail. If I'm at dinner, a theatre or some other public venue, then it's either in the vehicle or silenced (unless I inadvertently forget) I try not to gab on my cell phone while driving, unless I'm on the highway. Around town, I just let it ring because that driving requires more of my attention. Honestly, cell phone user have forgotten or neglected any etiquette that may have been ever learned. I'm of the impression that those who respond to the cell phone at the drop of a hat or violate etiquette are merely wanting to feel self-important.


For Dutch: North Dakota, where men are men and the sheep are nervous!! 

[Flame]

This is a joke, right ??

Why on earth would anyone spend time with others and drift off into a land that no one else can follow.?  If one needs to venture out alone into the world of words, unless in a waiting room with strangers on all sides, to pull out any reading material is a sign to others that you are busy and not to be disturbed.

Great mystery of life here why is it that when someone say at lunch alone just eats, people pass by like they are invisible.  When that someone eating alone pulls out a book, people come out of the woodwork to pass the time of day ?  This is on a par of rudeness that is worse then having people  talk to you about the weather while you are watching a movie.

I understand where you are coming from on the family meals, at breakfast perhaps even lunch, however dinner may be the only time to relax and communicate with family.

Reading for pleasure is an incredibly selfish act, one gains knowledge and leaves this world of reality same as one does when they dream.

How would anyone feel if in middle of a sex act their partner opened a book, called someone on a cell phone or played checkers on those hand held games??

Dining with others even family has rules of civil deportment. no hats or t-shirts or bare chests for the men.  No blowing their nose of picking it. Chew with your mouth shut, no slurping of food or drinks. Don't feed the dog or cat under the table, no lobing peas across the room, place the napkin in your lap, no elbows on the table, no loud talking or crude speech. Never pick ones teeth or use dentil floss,  don't wipe your mouth on the table cloth or shirt sleeve.  Don't eat mashed potatoes with your fingers.

The ONLY thing that one should read with a companion/companions is the Menu.


 

You realize Frank is working within an unusual perspective, right?  He's deaf.  I can see his point of view, when at a large gathering with people talking in conversations all around him.  I'd read, too, in his situation, just to keep my sanity, rather than try to follow multiple conversations.