"heirloom" seeds

[franksolich]

While reading the food section of the afternoon edition of the newspaper, I came across a comment about "heirloom" seeds--not their qualities or anything, but just a suggestion that one hoard a few in a general pantry.

Now, I was born and raised alongside the Platte River of Nebraska, farming country (and then as a teenager, the Sandhills of Nebraska, ranching country), and so matters agricultural and horticultural are not exactly alien things to me.

But on the Head of St. John the Baptist, I must say the first time I ever saw the term "heirloom seeds" was when I first started observing the primitives on Skins's island, in the cooking, do-it-yourself, frugal living, and rural forums.

Really.

I kid you not.  I had never seen that term before in my life.

The way the primitives talked about their "heirloom seeds," one milght have reasonably supposed they were talking about a Louis XIV pot d'chambre or a Queen Anne chest of drawers.

I am assuming "heirloom seeds" are simply seeds that produce an older variety of something; someone please correct me if I'm wrong, which I can be at times, if not most of the time.

Now, life, the earth, nature, and humans are constantly evolving, and I suspect the pumpkins destined to grow on the vines out here are somewhat different than the pumpkins that grew on the vines of my childhood.  It's a probably a very minor, nearly imperceptible, difference, but a difference.

Which marks the difference between the primitives on Skins's island, and decent and civilized people.  The primitives wish some things to always be frozen in time, never changing, while decent and civilized people accept this sort of evolution as a fact of life, and as nothing can be done about, one accepts, adapts, and moves on.

I never paid attention to seeds.  Seeds have always been something one picks up at the hardware store or grocery store every spring, puts into the ground, and voila! sooner or later they sprout something.

When my younger brother and I were toddlers, someone gave us each a 4'x4' "plot" of land, on which we were to grow our own garden.  To keep matters as uncomplicated as possible, I invariably grew carrots, nothing else.  My younger brother tried different things.

We planted the seeds, and presto! things grew.

Farming and gardening were never of any particular interest to me, but by the time I was a teenager (in the Sandhills, then), I had something 100'x100' on which I grew corn and cucumbers.  I put the seeds in, and then went on to other things in life, leaving the earth, nature, and the seeds alone to do their own thing in peace and quiet.

Eight- and nine-foot cornstalks by the 4th of July were nothing unusual to me, although because this was the Sandhills, others oftentimes commented that I must have had some sort of "magic touch," to make things grow so lavishly.

Of course I had no such thing; I just put the seeds into the ground, and let the seeds do their own thing, without interference from me.

When I moved out here almost five years ago--the place had been unoccupied the preceding ten years--there were still remnants of a long-ago vegetable garden, some plot (the ancient elderly gentleman tells me) 125'x200' in size.

Other than dumping canned vegetables--"rejects" from a food bank where I do the accounting work--and coffee filters directly onto that ground, I've never done a thing with this patch of land, letting things grow as they wish, when they wish.

(Minor correction: if the necessity arises, I do remove weeds, but that's it.)

This "garden" produces a lot of stuff, but alas myself being only one person, and what with everybody else around here having their own luxuriant gardens, about 99%--that is the correct figure, 99%--grows, and then rots, and decays back into the ground.

The cycle of life.

So what grows there is probably perhaps maybe originally from seeds planted there say, circa 15, 20, 25, years ago.

I'm assuming those are "heirlooms."  If not, please correct.

And then we come to something even more interesting.

The soil scientist asked me to not write about the William Rivers Pitt, that 740 cubic-ton mountain of antique swine excrement from circa 1875-1950 that dominates the landscape here, until she's all done with her studies of it (after which, I assume, I'll be free to write about the now-famous William Rivers Pitt).

But I don't suppose I'll get into any trouble if I simply mentioned that among her findings thus far, there's been lots and lots of "seeds, vegetable," in "varying stages of decomposition."

From the spring of 1875 until the barn burned down in July 1950, this place produced a lot of pigs (after the barn was gone, they switched to cattle); not just ordinary pigs, but purple-ribbon prize-winning pigs, generations and generations of them, county and state and national champions of pigs.

The soil scientist says these pigs were fed the finest of cuisine, shown even by the "samples" of the William Rivers Pitt dated in the hard dry austere 1930s, much of it vegetable matter, and much of that vegetable matter tomatoes.

Every spring, tomatoes burst forth violently from the William Rivers Pitt.

One time I commented to the ancient elderly gentleman that past generations must have planted a lot of tomatoes there, but the ancient elderly gentleman, who knows the history of this place, insisted no one ever planted anything, period, on the William Rivers Pitt; that what grows there, grows naturally.

Okay.

Say Chesterfield Hayes (a real name of a real pig) dined on a tomato the summer of 1884, and a couple of the seeds passed through his intestinal system without being fully digested.

And from those seeds sprouted tomatoes, every spring since 1884.

Would those tomatoes about to violently spring forth from the William Rivers Pitt (probably in about four weeks from now), be considered "heirloom plants"?

[rich_t]

To my understanding heirloom seeds are nothing more than non-hybrid seeds.

[LC EFA]

To my understanding heirloom seeds are nothing more than non-hybrid seeds.

I think that they also produce plants that in turn produce viable seeds.

Some of the varieties of store bought seeds produce plants that cannot produce viable seeds.

[rich_t]

I think that they also produce plants that in turn produce viable seeds.

Some of the varieties of store bought seeds produce plants that cannot produce viable seeds.

That is my understanding as well.

[franksolich]

I cross-posted this on freerepublic.

I wasn't aware I was going to cause an acrimonious argument.

That's not usually like me, causing an argument.

Sorry.

http://www.freerepublic.c...chat/2180755/posts?page=1

[rich_t]

I cross-posted this on freerepublic.

I wasn't aware I was going to cause an acrimonious argument.

That's not usually like me, causing an argument.

Sorry.

http://www.freerepublic.c...chat/2180755/posts?page=1

Don't worry about it Frank.  You are not responsible for the opinions of others.

[Inga]

Frank,

Many of the vegetables our ancestors grew have been abandoned in favor of modern hybrids, which tend to be earlier producing and more resistant to disease. But many of these old favorites are worth growing because of the fact that they often produce over a longer period rather than having been bred for commercial harvest at one specific time. Most are open- pollinated, non-hybrid varieties that can be grown from seed saved from last year's crop or passed on from friend to friend. By participating in such exchange you might even help to save some of the rarer varieties from extinction. Heirlooms have a better flavor also.

[thundley4]

Some people might say the heirloom varieties are also better tasting, but they might produce less and bear smaller fruit (or vegetables).

[Inga]

Some people might say the heirloom varieties are also better tasting, but they might produce less and bear smaller fruit (or vegetables).

That is possible,but when I grew Heirloom tomatoes( Cherokee and Brandywine), those were big as the palm of my hand.I have also known people to plant them in the woods, near our house and they would come back the next year on their own. This was a trial they were experimenting with.

[delilahmused]

That is possible,but when I grew Heirloom tomatoes( Cherokee and Brandywine), those were big as the palm of my hand.I have also known people to plant them in the woods, near our house and they would come back the next year on their own. This was a trial they were experimenting with.

I always grow heirloom tomatoes. They seem to taste best and have the biggest yield. Frank you have one of the best sources for heirloom seeds, roots, and sweet potatoes in the US in your neck of the woods (well Iowa), Sand Hill Preservation Center. It's a family run business. I know them because they have some of the best genetic strains of heritage poultry in the country. The preservation of American breeds is on of my passions.

Cindie

[franksolich]

Many of the vegetables our ancestors grew have been abandoned in favor of modern hybrids, which tend to be earlier producing and more resistant to disease. But many of these old favorites are worth growing because of the fact that they often produce over a longer period rather than having been bred for commercial harvest at one specific time. Most are open- pollinated, non-hybrid varieties that can be grown from seed saved from last year's crop or passed on from friend to friend. By participating in such exchange you might even help to save some of the rarer varieties from extinction. Heirlooms have a better flavor also.

I had assumed this was what was meant by the term "heirloom," but I had never heard of it until the primitives on Skins's island waxed forth and froth about it.

The primitives can be silly, and I wanted to be sure.

Usually around here, they're just called "original" or "non-hybrid" or their scientific name in Latin, rather than the pretty word "heirloom," which is perhaps the attraction for the primitives, who get caught up on pretty names.

Naturally, I'm enthusiastic about original, or non-hybrid varieties of things, from seeds to animals, and am all for their preservation and use.  As was pointed out on freerepublic, South America in 1840 had more than 600 kinds of potatoes; Ireland had only one.....and we all know what happened in Ireland during the 1840s.

So it's all good.

There is some depository in Norway that has amassed a collection of seeds for just about every single sort of plant that has existed--it's really enormous--for use in case disease wipes out something, and that's very good.

Horticulture and gardening isn't my thing to do, although things grow luxuriantly for me.  I suspect the reason is because I don't meddle with them, fuss with them, instead letting them grow as they are naturally inclined to grow, my only "intervention" being sure that weeds don't choke them out, nothing more.

[debk]

First time I heard the term "heirloom seeds" where it registered and sunk in....was several years ago on Martha Stewart's show.

She is a big advocate of heirloom seeds.....particularly tomatoes due to the flavor. However, I have also heard her talk about heirloom rose bushes too.

[SaintLouieWoman]

The Whole Foods stores feature heirloom tomatoes----translated expensive. Last year they were going for $5. a pound or thereabouts. They had samples and must confess that they tasted better than the mass-produced tomatoes. They were more irregularly shaped and had no uniform red color.

The Missouri Botanical Garden has a very large building dedicated to a vast collection of seeds and plants from all over the world. It's generally not open to the public, but saw it when they had an open house. It was fascinating (well, as fascinating as a bunch of old seeds and pressed leaves can be).